Legislature(2005 - 2006)HOUSE FINANCE 519
03/14/2006 01:30 PM House FINANCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB365 | |
| HB366 | |
| HB409 | |
| HB190 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 365 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 366 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 190 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 409 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 471 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
March 14, 2006
1:42 p.m.
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Chenault called the House Finance Committee meeting
to order at 1:42:00 PM.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Mike Chenault, Co-Chair
Representative Kevin Meyer, Co-Chair
Representative Bill Stoltze, Vice-Chair
Representative Richard Foster
Representative Mike Hawker
Representative Jim Holm
Representative Reggie Joule
Representative Mike Kelly
Representative Beth Kerttula
Representative Carl Moses
Representative Bruce Weyhrauch
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
ALSO PRESENT
Sharon Kelly, Staff, Representative Mike Chenault;
Representative Bob Lynn; Dave Feeken, Alaska Association of
Realtors, Kenai, Paul Lisankie, Director, Division of
Workers Compensation, Department of Labor and Workforce
Development; Tom Boutin, Deputy Commissioner, Department of
Revenue; William Green, Project Counsel, Knik Arm Bridge and
Toll Authority; Mayor George Wuerch, Chairman, Knik Arm
Bridge and Toll Authority; Hope Louise Cermelj, Alaska Elder
Voters; Emily Ferry, Alaska Transportation Priorities
Project; Representative Harry Crawford
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE
Duane Bannock, Director, Division of Motor Vehicles,
Department of Administration; Doug Griffin, Alcohol Beverage
Control (ABC) Board
SUMMARY
HB 365 "An Act making appropriations for the operating
and loan program expenses of state government, for
certain programs, and to capitalize funds;
making appropriations under art. IX, sec. 17(c),
Constitution of the State of Alaska, from the
constitutional budget reserve fund; and providing
for an effective date."
HB 365 was heard and HELD in Committee for further
consideration.
HB 366 "An Act making appropriations for the operating
and capital expenses of the state's integrated
comprehensive mental health program; and providing
for an effective date."
HB 366 was heard and HELD in Committee for further
consideration.
HB 409 "An Act relating to excluding qualified real
estate licensees from workers' compensation
coverage."
CSHB 409 (L&C) was REPORTED out of Committee with
a "no recommendation" and with zero note #1 by the
Department of Commerce, Community and Economic
Development and with zero note #2 by the
Department of Labor and Workforce Development.
HB 471 "An Act amending the Knik Arm Bridge and Toll
Authority Act and the powers and authority of the
authority, and making conforming changes to
statutes relating to issuance, renewal, or
reinstatement of driver's licenses and to levy on
permanent fund dividends; and providing for an
effective date."
CSHB 471 (FIN) was REPORTED out of Committee with
a "no recommendation" and with two new zero fiscal
notes by the Department of Transportation and
Public Facilities and the Department of Natural
Resources.
HB 190 "An Act relating to certain licenses for the sale,
distribution, or manufacture of tobacco products;
relating to tobacco taxes and sales and cigarette
tax stamps; relating to provisions making certain
cigarettes contraband and subject to seizure and
forfeiture; relating to certain crimes, penalties,
and interest concerning tobacco taxes and sales;
relating to notification regarding a cigarette
manufacturer's noncompliance with the tobacco
product Master Settlement Agreement or related
statutory provisions and to confiscation of the
affected cigarettes; and providing for an
effective date."
HB 190 was heard and HELD in Committee for further
consideration.
1:42:22 PM
HOUSE BILL NO. 365
"An Act making appropriations for the operating and
loan program expenses of state government, for certain
programs, and to capitalize funds; making
appropriations under art. IX, sec. 17(c), Constitution
of the State of Alaska, from the constitutional budget
reserve fund; and providing for an effective date."
Co-Chair Meyer MOVED to ADOPT the work draft for HB 365,
labeled 24-GH2033\I, Bailey, 3/13/06, as the version of the
bill before the committee. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
so ordered.
HOUSE BILL NO. 366
"An Act making appropriations for the operating and
capital expenses of the state's integrated
comprehensive mental health program; and providing for
an effective date."
Co-Chair Meyer MOVED to ADOPT the work draft for HB 366,
labeled 24-GH2035\G, Bailey, 3/13/06, as the version of the
bill before the committee. There being NO OBJECTION, it was
so ordered.
1:43:28 PM
Co-Chair Chenault summarized the committee substitutes for
the budget bills. He related that the total general fund
reductions by House Committees to the operating bill are
$82,341.7 million from the numbers section and $32,758.4
million from the language sections, which total $115,100.1
million in general funds. This comparison assumes the
committee will eventually appropriate $90 million more for
K-12 education. Language making that appropriation is not
currently in the committee substitute, but is expected to
appear as a fiscal note attached to a bill increasing the
base student allocation. Agency summary reports dated March
14 show a reduction of $205 million from the governor's
request. Those reports, while technically more accurate
than the $115 million reduction shown in the March 13
reports, distort the expected outcome of the budget process.
SHARON KELLY, STAFF, CO-CHAIR CHENAULT, shared the process
used to arrive at the new committee substitutes. The House
Finance subcommittees were appointed and they reviewed the
th
governor's bill plus all operation amendments up to the 45
th
included: one was a reduction of $2.3 million to Marine
Transportation for a reduction of fast ferry service, and
another was a reduction of $1.3 million to the Senior Care
Fund. Two amendments that were received last week relating
to Corrections salary and benefits are not included because
they would have delayed drafting of the bill.
Ms. Kelly reported that the subcommittees closed out and
made recommendations to the full House Finance Committee.
These recommendations were rolled into this committee
substitute along with some adjustments made by the co-chair.
Some of those adjustments include: fuel increases were
deleted for consistency with the rest of the budget; new
programs not requested in the governor's bill were removed,
but may be considered later through the amendment process;
technical adjustments recommended by Legislative Finance
were made to adjust the position count correctly; some
funding changes were made to allow for sustainability and
full utilization of funding sources such as business license
receipts, Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission (CFEC),
vehicle rental tax, criminal fines, and the commercial loan
fund.
Ms. Kelly addressed some additions of general fund to
correct some modified adjusted base problems in the
Department of Fish and Game and in the Department of
Military and Veterans Affairs. There were also other small
reductions. The Health, Education, and Social Services
subcommittee cut $10 million more than is reflected on the
CS. The co-chair moved this amount from the language
section of the Senior Care Fund over to the numbers section.
The Senior Care Fund will lapse next year. Federal fund
authority was reestablished in the Department of Fish and
Game and in the Department of Public Safety. If those funds
do become available those departments will not have to go to
Legislative Budget and Audit for approval.
1:47:55 PM
Ms. Kelly related that in the language section of the budget
some reordering changes were made. Senior Care was moved to
the numbers section and some deletions were taken. Power
Cost Equalization was funded at FY 06 levels. Education
funding is included in the language section, excluding the
$656,000,000 of FY 06 funds the governor is proposing to
use. The $90 million amount for education will be addressed
in another vehicle. There are also $565 million of FY 06
funds that the governor is proposing to use to fund the FY
07 education budget.
Ms. Kelly pointed out that there are two agency summaries,
one dated March 13, which show the actions of the
subcommittee and co-chairs, and one dated March 14, which
also shows the $90 million for education reduction since it
is not included in the bill.
1:48:33 PM
Ms. Kelly addressed one change to the Mental Health bill.
The item removed was $550,000 for the Department of Natural
Resources' Mental Health Land Trust Development, which comes
from Mental Health Trust Receipts. Information regarding
these bills will be on the Legislative Finance web site.
Co-Chair Chenault explained that the process would be to
accept the committee substitutes today and then take public
testimony on Thursday through Saturday. The deadline for
amendments will be on Monday at 5:00. He stated that the
committee would take up amendments on Tuesday and Wednesday
with the intention of passing the bill out no later than
Thursday. He requested that those proposing amendments for
more money should stipulate where the money will come from
in the budget.
CHB 365 and CS HB 366 were heard and HELD in Committee for
further consideration.
Co-Chair Meyer took over as chair of the committee.
1:51:15 PM
HOUSE BILL NO. 409
"An Act relating to excluding qualified real estate
licensees from workers' compensation coverage."
REPRESENTATIVE BOB LYNN, sponsor, addressed the purpose of
HB 409, which is to exclude real estate licensees from
workers' compensation coverage. He noted that he is
currently a licensed real estate broker acting as an
associate broker. He related that every state has laws
governing real estate licenses. Most real estate licensees
in Alaska are independent contractors. They are licensed
under a broker, but they operate as "independent
contractors", paying for all of their own expenses. They do
not receive a wage, salary, or benefits. They control and
decide what days and hours they will work and pay for
business expenses such as licensing fees, continuing
education, advertising, long-distance phone calls, and
business insurance on their vehicles. They often pay for
their own computer and other office equipment, and quarterly
estimated income tax and social security tax. Real estate
licensees operate an independent business within a business,
controlling their own hours of work. The IRS recognizes
them as independent contractors and the state should
likewise.
1:54:38 PM
Representative Holm asked for more information about how the
real estate business works with brokers and their
associates. Representative Lynn responded that brokers can
list themselves independently. A sales associate must
operate under a broker. A broker receives a commission,
such as 40 percent of the sales. Representative Holm asked
what the broker offers to the associate broker for their
cut. Representative Lynn replied that the broker oversees
transactions as they apply to state law.
Representative Holm asked how workers' compensation applies
to the hierarchical nature of the industry. He wondered, if
real estate licensees cannot work on their own, why they
wouldn't qualify for workers' compensation. Representative
Lynn explained the difference between a broker's license and
a sales associate license. He emphasized that sales
associates are not employees. Representative Holm restated
the question to compare a sales associate's job to a car
salesman who gets a percentage of the sales. Representative
Lynn clarified that a real estate sales associate does not
get a salary, only a commission.
2:00:48 PM
Representative Kerttula wondered if there has ever been a
workers' compensation claim filed by a licensee.
Representative Lynn said he does not know.
Representative Hawker noted that this situation regarding
independent contractors and workers' compensation is a
pervasive problem. He wondered why the bill was limited to
the real estate industry. Representative Lynn agreed that
other areas could be looked at later. He chose to limit
the bill to real estate licensees.
2:02:50 PM
DAVE FEEKEN, ALASKA ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS, KENAI, stated
that the bill would clarify a confusing issue that his
organization has been working on. He noted that the
Department of Labor recognizes the status of independent
contractors and exempts them from workers' compensation
coverage. The relationship in a brokerage firm between the
broker and licensee meets the standards of independent
contractor. The IRS recognized this relationship for tax
purposes in the 70's as self-employed. The broker does not
withhold taxes on commissions earned by the licensees. The
licensee is responsible for filing quarterly returns. This
does not mean that a brokerage firm would not carry workers'
compensation insurance for staff, personal assistants, and
hourly employees. It only exempts licensees with a written
independent contract agreement with the broker. He
concluded that the Department of Labor, the director of
workers' compensation, and the real estate commission
support the bill.
Representative Kerttula asked if there had ever been any
workers' compensation claims by licensees against realtors.
Mr. Feeken said there have only been a few. He recalled one
instance of a person slipping on the ice when showing a
house and collecting compensation for two weeks.
Representative Kerttula summarized that it seems to be
related to the type of work done, rather than the job title.
2:06:37 PM
PAUL LISANKIE, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF WORKERS COMPENSATION,
DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, agreed to answer questions.
Representative Kerttula asked if Mr. Lisankie thought there
was a risk, with the passage of this bill, of leaving
employees out who qualified for workers' compensation. Mr.
Lisankie replied that part of the problem is there has to be
a written agreement that identifies the relationship between
the worker and the employee. What happens sometimes is that
people believe, due to the paperwork that they have filled
out, that they have an independent contractor relationship.
But at some later point, someone is unsatisfied with that
view and may want an injury considered by the workers'
compensation board. Another example would be if an
insurance company audits premiums on the office staff
insurance and determines that the associate brokers are
employees and should be subject to a back premium. It is
the uncertainty that causes problems.
Representative Kerttula asked if that is true for many
professions. Mr. Lisanke agreed that it applies to other
occupations as well.
2:10:16 PM
Representative Foster MOVED to REPORT CSHB 409 (L&C) with
individual recommendations and with the accompanying zero
fiscal notes. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
CSHB 409 (L&C) was REPORTED out of Committee with a "no
recommendation" and with zero note #1 by the Department of
Commerce, Community and Economic Development and with zero
note #2 by the Department of Labor and Workforce
Development.
2:11:06 PM
HOUSE BILL NO. 471
"An Act amending the Knik Arm Bridge and Toll Authority
Act and the powers and authority of the authority, and
making conforming changes to statutes relating to
issuance, renewal, or reinstatement of driver's
licenses and to levy on permanent fund dividends; and
providing for an effective date."
Representative Stoltze MOVED to ADOPT the work draft to HB
471, labeled 24-LS1670\Y, Kane, 3/3/06. There being NO
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
REPRESENTATIVE BILL STOLTZE, sponsor, reported that this
bill sets up the mechanisms for when money is provided for
the Knik Arm Bridge project. It does not request funds for
the project, but sets up the bonding and toll mechanisms.
He termed it an innovative means of achieving this public
project by leveraging private sector funds to construct a
toll bridge across the Knik Arm and connect the municipality
of Anchorage and the Matanuska-Susitna.
2:14:30 PM
GEORGE WUERCH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, KNIK ARM BRIDGE & TOLL
AUTHORITY (KABATA), introduced the others who were available
to answer questions. He congratulated the legislature for
adopting the state's first toll authority in 2003. He spoke
of a specific responsibility related to that legislation
which requires KABATA to set a debt ceiling. KABATA
requested a $500 million cap on its debt, an amount in
response to the governor's budget. He suggested it is a
workable number to finance that which is needed to begin the
project.
WILLIAM GREEN, PROJECT COUNSEL, KNIK ARM BRIDGE & TOLL
AUTHORITY, referred to a packet made available to the
members of the committee entitled "Knik Arm Bridge and Toll
Authority Presentation" (copy on file). HB 471 is a product
of several efforts. The CS contains recommendations and
additions made by the State Bond Council. In 2003 the
legislature charge KABATA to build a bridge across Knik Arm.
Federal funds have been made available to this project,
which includes the bridge and all access approaches. It has
always been understood by KABATA that other funding would be
necessary, such as revenue bonds. Visits with other state
Departments of Transportation and toll facilities, and
discussions with senior representatives with the Federal
Highway Administration and their loan programs, have
provided information about other funding sources. He termed
the bill a good and unique toll authority statute. He
offered clear and specific suggestions for financing
options.
2:22:18 PM
Mr. Green clarified the purposes of the bill: to clean up
language in state statutes and to assure and give competence
to public and private financing sectors that KABATA has the
authority it needs to enter into financing arrangements.
The bill serves to "fill in the blank" of the original
statute to request the level of revenue bonds to be issued.
He offered to review the proposed bill: It provides
authority to KABATA to set the amount of the bridge tolls.
It provides authority to enter into public-private
partnerships for the construction, maintenance and operation
of the toll bridge. It authorizes obtaining non-recourse
loans from the U.S. DOT's TIFIA loan program. It sets the
dollar of non-recourse revenue bonds that may be issued and
refunded. It provides means for the collection of tolls and
other obligations owing KABATA in the operation of the toll
bridge. He concluded that it is a housekeeping bill.
2:24:52 PM
TOM BOUTIN, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE,
offered to answer questions.
Representative Kerttula noted that the statute says that the
bonds issued by the Authority are not going to be a
liability of the state. She wondered what happens if there
was not enough funding within the Authority. Mr. Boutin
described the language as standard, stand-alone, revenue
bond language. The bond holders and KABATA would not have
the ability to give the bond holders a pledge of anything
other than the rates and fees and reserve funds associated
with the facility. There would not be a way to penetrate
the revenues and funds on hand for a bondholder to get the
general fund or any other funds of the state. These bonds
would not carry the moral obligation of the state. They are
stand-alone revenue bonds of a state agency that are
independent.
Representative Kerttula asked for an example of a bond that
does not carry a moral obligation by the state. Mr. Boutin
related that International Airport Revenue Bonds are an
example of stand-alone revenue bonds.
Representative Stoltze summarized that the risk is to the
investor who is buying the bonds. Mr. Boutin agreed.
2:28:37 PM
HOPE LOUISE CERMELJ, ALASKA ELDER VOTERS, spoke about her
participation on the Petition Trail Campaign. She testified
in opposition to HB 471. She termed it a $600 million
project of which $94 million will be appropriated by the
federal government, a large decrease from $240 million. She
referred to the last page of the bill, which states that
persons can lose their permanent fund if their toll is
unpaid. She suggested that the toll could be as high as $12
round trip. She proposed that seniors and veterans receive
a toll exemption or compensation to use this facility. She
spoke about the loss of the longevity bonus.
Co-Chair Meyer noted that gas prices are high, which makes
the toll seem reasonable.
2:32:48 PM
EMILY FERRY, ALASKA TRANSPORTATION PRIORITIES PROJECT,
stated relief that the contract is being tightened down, but
voiced concern about strengthening KABATA's authority to
bond. She referred to a handout of KABATA's 2005 Annual
Report (copy on file) that shows a graph of anticipated
project spending. $200 million would be from the bond
revenue, which is one-third of the cost of the bridge if it
is $600 million. She mentioned that there have been
estimates of up to $1.5 billion for the same project. She
noted $94 million from the federal government and $50
million from the general fund for Mat-Su road improvements.
That still leaves $256 million unfunded. She questioned
where that money would come from. She suggested that other
projects that depend on general fund money may be left
short.
Co-Chair Meyer closed public testimony.
Mr. Wuerch concluded that the issue before the committee is
to grant KABATA the authority to proceed with private and
public financing. The rest of the funding issue would come
later. There will be roughly $100 million in public money.
He pointed out that toll facilities are subject to rigorous
public scrutiny.
2:37:40 PM
Representative Kerttula asked why the right to garnish the
permanent fund dividend was included. Mr. Wuerch replied
that is just a mechanism of collecting debt to the state.
KABATA is not asking for police power, but to set fees.
Agencies can enforce collection of the tolls.
Representative Kerttula cautioned to use good sense when
dealing with permanent funds.
2:38:53 PM
Mr. Green addressed the permanent fund concern and
speculated how high the toll bill would have to be before
collection was enacted. He suggested that discretion would
be used for leans against the PFD. The PFD provisions do
provide for use as a lean for all debts. Representative
Kerttula said she would check into how many state agencies
have that authority.
2:40:09 PM
Representative Foster MOVED to REPORT CSHB 471 (FIN) out of
Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying two new zero fiscal notes. There being NO
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
2:41:30 PM
HOUSE BILL NO. 190
"An Act relating to certain licenses for the sale,
distribution, or manufacture of tobacco products;
relating to tobacco taxes and sales and cigarette tax
stamps; relating to provisions making certain
cigarettes contraband and subject to seizure and
forfeiture; relating to certain crimes, penalties, and
interest concerning tobacco taxes and sales; relating
to notification regarding a cigarette manufacturer's
noncompliance with the tobacco product Master
Settlement Agreement or related statutory provisions
and to confiscation of the affected cigarettes; and
providing for an effective date."
Representative Foster MOVED to ADOPT the work draft for HB
190, labeled 24-LS0617\S, Luckhaupt, 3/10/06. There being
NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
2:42:39 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HARRY CRAWFORD, sponsor, spoke strongly in
support of HB 190 because of its potential to save so many
lives. He shared a personal story about a car accident
involving his wife and a repeat offender drunk driver. He
emphasized that this bill focuses on prevention, rather than
punishment. As a matter of routine, a judge will issue an
order for the defendant not to buy or consume alcohol, or
enter a licensed establishment. Many offenders immediately
purchase alcohol upon their release. He related that he has
borrowed language from other previous bills to draft this
bill, which would provide for a physical display on state
issued ID's if a person has been prohibited from purchasing
alcohol by a court. It also allows for a civil penalty,
paid to the licensee if a person restricted from purchasing
alcohol is on their premises.
Representative Crawford acknowledged that "change" is always
difficult. There are many amendments that were incorporated
into the committee substitute.
2:48:22 PM
Representative Crawford provided a sectional analysis of HB
190 (copy on file.)
Section 1 amends AS 04.16 by adding a new section that
provides that a person who purchases alcohol may not enter
or remain on licensed premises, provides a civil remedy for
licensees against persons who violate this section.
Section 2 amends AS 04.16 by adding a new section that the
purchasing of alcoholic beverages by a person of legal age
is a privilege that can be revoked for the conviction of a
crime or as a condition of probation or parole.
Section 3 provides a conforming amendment to Section 2.
Section 4 amends AS 28.15.111(a) by requiring that drivers'
licenses must be designed to allow the license to be
electronically read so as to display whether a person has
privilege to purchase alcoholic beverages under AS
04.16.160.
New Section 5 requires DMV to cancel and re-issue a marked
license if an individual's privilege to purchase alcohol has
been revoked under Section 2 of HB 190.
New Section 6 requires the surrender of a license when an
individual has been ordered not to consume alcohol and
establishes the obligation of the court and the Department
of Corrections to notify DMV when an order is issued.
New Section 7 permits DMV to establish a fee for issuing the
marked licenses established by HB 190.
Representative Crawford offered to answer questions of the
committee.
2:51:57 PM
DUANE BANNOCK, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF MOTOR VEHICLES,
DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION, noted appreciation for the
work done on this legislation. He said DMV recognizes the
trouble that drunk driving has caused Alaskans. He reminded
members about previous legislation addressing deaths and
accidents involving younger drivers.
He apologized to the committee for the submission of an
indeterminate fiscal note. The DMV has not been able to get
a grip on the number of persons that would be affected by
passage of the legislation. The Division does not know how
much it will cost to develop an accurate real time exchange
between the Court System and the Department of Corrections.
There is no direct link between the Department of
Corrections and DMV. He stressed the worthwhile goal of the
legislation.
2:56:07 PM
Mr. Bannock questioned the tie-in between the bill and
drinking while driving. He asked how the tragic story could
change for drinking while driving as a result of the passage
of this bill.
Co-Chair Meyer asked how the courts and other departments
could link up to see that the driver's licenses are marked.
Mr. Bannock replied that court-ordered revocations are
usually sent by mail. The systems are not intra-agency
connected. In the future, the agencies would like to have
that type of system for intra-agency communication. The
state is millions of dollars away from such a system.
2:59:05 PM
Co-Chair Meyer posed a hypothetical situation involving the
transfer of information. Mr. Bannock acknowledged that his
example was correct, and added that there remains an open
end in the circuit concerning the vendor selling the
alcohol.
Representative Kerttula assumed that the court system could
relay that information by email. Mr. Bannock replied that
under the bill, Section 6, addresses that. He agreed that
email would be the most efficient way at this time, but is
not the cure-all of the overall purpose of the bill.
3:01:34 PM
Representative Crawford stated that even he is capable of
emailing. He said he believes that Mr. Bannock's assessment
that this would cost millions of dollars was creating a
"road-block". He disagreed with Mr. Bannock's opinion.
There are financial incentives associated with the
legislation. He emphasized that the state must do something
to interrupt the current situation.
3:03:57 PM
Co-Chair Meyer asked about the constitutionality of labeling
the ID of a person for drinking concerns.
ANNE CARPENETI, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, LEGAL SERVICES
SECTION-JUNEAU, CRIMINAL DIVISION, DEPARTMENT OF LAW,
replied that it could raise constitutional issues. She
thought there would be ways to get information without
carrying a "scarlet letter" for that person.
Co-Chair Meyer suggested it could impact DMV. Ms. Carpeneti
thought that there may have to be a bar code reader
involved.
Co-Chair Meyer commented on the financial incentive to check
the identification. Ms. Carpeneti responded that the
current drafting would not allow for buying or drinking
alcohol on the premise.
Representative Stoltze asked if the consequences would apply
only to those that who commit an offense after the passage
of the bill. Ms. Carpeneti suggested adding an
applicability section to the bill to clarify that.
Representative Stoltze voiced concern with the registration
of sex offenders previous to the passage of the sex offender
bill. If that logic was followed in this legislation, there
could be problems. Ms. Carpeneti advised that generally
criminal statutes apply into the future, not the past.
Representative Stoltze commented that there would be no
"looking back" at offenses. Ms. Carpeneti discussed how the
application works post facto and said it could be applied as
a condition of parole.
3:10:43 PM
Co-Chair Meyer noted that when a person does buy alcohol,
any ID is ok to use. Ms. Carpeneti agreed. Representative
Crawford pointed out that the bill addresses both the ID and
driver's license. Ms. Carpeneti added that it does not
mention a passport.
Representative Stoltze suggesting looking a list of all
possible ID's. Ms. Carpeneti said a person could get around
it by using another form of ID.
Co-Chair Meyer implied that a habitual offender would try to
get around the law.
3:12:58 PM
Representative Crawford noted that the bill is not perfect.
He said he did not want to prohibit a person with an out-of-
state license or an ID from another country from buying
alcohol. The bill is just trying to prohibit habitual
offenders in Alaska; it is not trying to be all-inclusive.
Co-Chair Meyer expressed a concern about loopholes. He
asked if there is a way to educate owners of liquor
establishments.
DOUG GRIFFIN, DIRECTOR, ALCOHOL BEVERAGE CONTROL (ABC)
BOARD, responded that Co-Chair Meyer is correct in saying
that any kind of government issued ID, which would include a
passport, military ID, or a driver's license from other
states or territories could be used.
Co-Chair Meyer asked for comments on the bill. Mr. Griffin
said the removal of the requirement that everyone purchasing
alcoholic beverages must show identification, removes the
direct interest the ABC Board would have in this matter. He
spoke of his board's concern about the abuse of alcohol.
Co-Chair Meyer noted previous bills regarding this subject.
He spoke of the success of those bills. He asked Mr.
Griffin if businesses have taken advantage of civil lawsuits
to sue persons who use a fake ID. Mr. Griffin said he does
not know if they are taking the "civil action" step. He
noted most come from Brown Jug and Chilkoot Charlie's.
3:18:36 PM
Representative Kerttula pointed out that in Juneau when Co-
Chair Meyer's bill on underage drinking passed, a lot of
education related information went out. The programs were
successful in rural areas due to this education.
Mr. Griffin responded that there are differences between
underage drinking and HB 190, which deals with the alcohol
abuser. He agreed that we must take a multifaceted
approach.
3:21:20 PM
Co-Chair Chenault MOVED to ADOPT Amendment #1:
Page 3, line 27
Following "license," delete "the person must obtain a
new license that lists" and insert "when the person
obtains a new license, the license must list"
Page 4, line 2
Delete "the person must obtain a new license that
lists" and insert "when the person obtains a new
license, the license must list"
Representative Stoltze OBJECTED for discussion purposes.
Representative Crawford addressed the amendment. He stated
that the language change was requested by DMV.
Co-Chair Chenault asked for Mr. Duane Bannock's opinion.
Duane Bannock stated that DMV concurs with the amendment.
He summarized that when a person applies for a new license,
then the new license must be marked.
Representative Joule asked how the mark would be removed
when the penalty ends. Representative Crawford replied that
the day the penalty ends, a new license could be obtained.
Representative Crawford shared that in Minnesota, a person's
car license plate is marked and that is not
unconstitutional. Co-Chair Meyer responded that he has no
problem with that. He stated a concern about discrimination
when trying to rent a car. Representative Crawford thought
it would be up to the car rental company's discretion. He
said he does not want to address that situation in this
bill.
Representative Stoltze REMOVED his OBJECTION to adopting
Amendment #1. There being NO OBJECTION, Amendment #1 was
adopted.
3:28:00 PM
Co-Chair Meyer stated his intent to hold the bill due to the
indeterminate fiscal note, and because he does not believe
that the bill targets the intended person.
Representative Crawford replied that the cost would be born
by the offenders, not the state. The fiscal note must be
indeterminate because the numbers of offenders are not
known. He emphasized that it would not be a direct cost to
the state. He addressed targeting the offender. He
explained his intent to give tools to the people who are
willing to help "end this carnage". He admitted that it is
not a perfect bill, but he strongly asked for passage of the
bill.
Co-Chair Meyer suggested talking to Brown Jug about this
bill. He said he is not sure licensed premises would agree
to take this step. Representative Crawford reported that in
his discussions with licensed establishments, he found
offers of support.
Representative Stoltze suggested finding a way to make
offenders pay the cost.
3:33:05 PM
Co-Chair Meyer said that a bar coding system could be used.
Representative Crawford disagreed with that concept. He
said he prefers a marking system.
CSHB 190 (FIN) was heard and HELD in Committee for further
consideration.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 3:34 PM
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